Revealer said: The only example adam had of copulation were animals. where do think he thought it was being inserted. took a period of time to figure out.
That's one of the funniest lines I've ever read on JWN. ROTFLMFAO
just n from bethel
JoinedPosts by just n from bethel
-
67
About the Adam and Eve time gap....
by Lozhasleft inwhat's got me a bit befuddled is this.... when eve was created she was physically perfect right?
and apparently god blessed them which counted as a marriage.
so....that means that satan's deception of eve must have been almost immediate?....because being perfect she would have conceived virtually straight away, surely?
-
-
-
99
Jehovah's Witnesses - Once Again the Fastest Growing Faith in the U.S.
by davidl7 inaccording to the latest statistics published by the ncc in its yearbook of american and canadian churches, the jehovah's witnesess had the highest growth rate, in 2010 growing 4.37%.
this is, i believe, is the 4th year in a row, that the witnesses had the highest growth rate.
roman catholics grew by less than 1%, as did most of the other churches listed.
-
-
just n from bethel
David said:
Well in the average attendance in the NY congregation that I attend was a 225 in 2010 and the average number of publishers is 91. That number of course, does not count the children who are preach but are still in training and are not counted...nor the new ones that are studying the Bible with the Witnesses, some of which are now preaching to the relatives. When I was in Dallas, I visited a congregation there. The attendance that Sunday was 389. My friend said attendance is usually averages about 330, and they have an 120 publishers.
OMG - please stop, stop, if I laugh any harder I'll wake the neighbors. [Panting for about 10 minutes .. catches breath.. breaks out into hysterical laughter again for another 15 minutes ... ok, ok, I'm good, I've got it under control ... nope ... holding it - holding it - Bwahahaha - breaks out again into more uncontrollable laughter... for another 30 minutes ... laughing so hard I'm crying now - wife wants to know what's wrong... Finally eases - and definitely stopped now. ok good for the time being as long as I don't read the post again]
Seriously - you are a joke. One thing for sure, if your #s are off even off by 50% it's still too high - but if the avg. attendence is higher than pubs I know one thing for absolute certain, especially in Dallas, here is the fact: wait for it, wait for it: these are not English congregations. Probably spanish and you're leaving that out.
Let's do some quick math here: for the congregation you attend, you say you have near 250% attendence. Now lets look at 2010 US memorial attendance: the meeting where the attendants count all the neighbors and DFd children's babies who only go that meeting, and that meeting alone; hell they even count the picketing apostates like Rick Koolaid Man... let's see - I haven't looked yet - looking now ... right at, not 250% not 230% not even 220% but just eked out at 210%! This is from the website www.watchtower.org for 2010. So you say - your cong averages 250% when the rest of the country's memorial attendance isn't even near what your congregation averages???? Then you go on to say that you visit US congregations that are similar or greater than yours in average attendance - but the watchtower claims that they don't even get those numbers in the US for their biggest meeting of the year - the memorial???
Look I still am in contact with multiple COs and bethelites. They all say the same thing - English attendance in the US is down - even after cutting bookstudy. There are several active elders on here that will confirm. Spanish is up though, but that just confirms my point doesn't it? Without the immigrant population, particulary hispanics in the US, JWs growth would be negative - just like Japan. Japan's growth has stopped and will never get bigger, which is interesting because you would think a religion in all countries could at least keep up with population growth. Thanks to immigration growth in the US, and the JWs push to jump on them like fish in a barrel, the JWs have continued to grow. But the quality of their members is not the same. You can't even get the average Spanish JW to explain some basic JW teachings like how 1914 is calculated. I know, because a spanish CO recently said to me how he enjoyed having some deep discussions with me, because he just can't really do that with the friends in the Spanish. They haven't "spiritually matured" enough were his words.
But I'm glad you posted what you did. You seem to like pulling numbers out of your butt. Your last comment about attendance in the US shows you don't even think the watchtower numbers are right.
Oh and as for your college professors that became a JW - that's not really that impressive - there will always be those on the extreme side of things, even in college. Here are a few examples of college professors who do not impress me:
Ted Kaczynski
and
Amy Bishop
What we know as a fact - with the exception of a few extreme "I'm-acedemically-capable-but-still-need-to-be-in-a-cult" individuals, the vast majority of growth comes from those immigrants unable to access and process information that otherwise competent people do when they are asked at the door to look into JWs.
Anyway, glad I was able to help you get your facts straight. I gotta stop now, cause I feel another laugh attack coming on the more I try not to think about your ridiculous post. [Holding it ... Walking away .. thinking of Margaret Thatcher ... I'm walking. I'm walking]
-
81
A roaring current of change.... Is The Watchtower in the process of a major overhaul of their religion?
by koolaid-man ina roaring current of change..... what is going on at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses?
in the last couple of years unprecedented changes in policy, procedure, and doctrine have been coming forth in rapid fire sequence.
this uninterrupted episode of new information is beginning to backfire for the rank and file witnesses.
-
-
just n from bethel
They were just labeled the fastest growing religion in the US. New peaks in DC and memorial attendance worldwide. I think they're a cult as much as the next guy, but, whatever it is they're doing, it's working (My take - at least for the US - the big push on foreign language immigrants, especially hispanics). Unfortunately, ain't nothing coming down anytime soon.
Here's an interesting statistic to me though - South Africa - only 90,000 witnesses. Most are, of course, immigrants, many of whom live in the shantytowns. Then you take Zambia, 160,000 witnesses with a far less populated country than South Africa. Also, much less access to education, internet access, etc. This is all simple information control, JWs have a good control of information through their watchtowers and kingdom halls, especially to people who have little if any other infromation sources. As long as there are places with populations like that, even the immigrants in the US, the watchtower will do well. It's that simple. No tabloid sensationalistic site will take them down. Neither will any neutral discussion board or just-the-facts-ma'am site. But you will have a larger group of less educated individuals that are into the extra authoritarian style of living only to be found in all religions, but especially ones like JWs.
-
38
I'm a new study, need advice.
by Resistance is Futile ina little background on me, i have never been a jw.
my spouse was born and raised in the cult, disfellowshipped as a young adult and is now completely shunned by family still trapped inside.
before i met my spouse i knew very little about the jws.
-
-
just n from bethel
Welcome - and glad you're up to the task. Just so you know, it was my attempt to witness to a colleague of mine that helped me move on from the JWs. He said he didn't think he could ever accept the idea of a global flood as there was simply too much evidence to the contrary. At first I didn't believe him, but I did a lot of research on the various points about history and the flood, and came to the conclusion that he was right. After a while - it took a few years for me - it became so glaring obvious that the Bible's accounts of history were a joke, and it really shook me inside; how did I ever believe the Bible stories were not a myth in the first place? The fact that this was a neutral subject for all bible believers and not an attack on the JW religion made me feel completely unthreatened. Had he started in on the JW beliefs like dates and Russel and Rutherford or even the UN and pedophilia, I would have dismissed him as someone that just read some disgruntled websites. I never would have looked into his claims. But the Flood - hell, I could take on that objection no problem. Turns out - it was quite the problem.
So - just so you know, it has been done. I'm living proof, and it was just a simple conversation during an informal witness to my friend. He had no intention of dissuading my beliefs, he just explained why he couldn't accept the Bible's account of the flood. I followed the Watchtower's advice and listened to his objections and went and researched them so I could get back to him. Turns out - he was right. Global flood never happened. Maybe you can do the same. Just be patient, but stick to your guns. Make them prove it to you. If they can't prove it happened, then at some point in their life they will have to start to wonder - what else do the JWs (and for that matter, the Bible) have wrong?
Good luck.
-
16
Blood Transference?
by Marvin Shilmer inblood transference?.
watchtower doctrine has advanced the natural and healthy transference of blood constituents via the placenta as a basis for letting witnesses accept blood fractions.
there is a fundamental flaw in that particular proposition that presents an internal contradiction to watchtowers blood doctrine.
-
-
just n from bethel
Thanks Marvin. Great job.
-
-
-
just n from bethel
Shit man - you think birthdays are hard, at least they're only once a year - I can't even say "bless you" after someone sneezes yet.
-
53
New member - my story
by Millions injust a brief introduction, i thought i would try out one of the more established forums, have done some stuff on youtube and other places but thought i would give this a try.. potted history: raised jw by mother, in it for 30 years or so, baptised at age 18, regular pioneer at 20, ms a couple years later, mts at 26 and got assignment to a new cong, elder at around 29, came off pioneering around 31, came off as elder around 32, started to slowly wind down, completely stopped attending about 3 years ago, disassociated dec 2010. pause for breath.. the last 5 years or so have been a painfully gradual process of deconstructing myself and then piecing together fragments of my shattered life that are still valid outside the organisation.
the question 'who am i?
' has been a continual investigation; every day for the first couple of years i would realise another subject or issue that i didn't have my own opinions about.
-
-
just n from bethel
Great story - and welcome!!!
Just one question though: On behalf of all fellow born-again ex-JWs, since you've left - have you found the real Jesus?
... nah, I'm just screwing around, congrats on any life path you take away from the cult.
-
16
Blood Transference?
by Marvin Shilmer inblood transference?.
watchtower doctrine has advanced the natural and healthy transference of blood constituents via the placenta as a basis for letting witnesses accept blood fractions.
there is a fundamental flaw in that particular proposition that presents an internal contradiction to watchtowers blood doctrine.
-
-
just n from bethel
I tried to get on the noblood.org forum to ask a question but was denied because they felt the nature of my question was too controversial and not appropriate to the forum:
It relates to what TD said:
Further, the idea that the Neutrophils in mother's milk didn't come directly from the blood stream, but entered the lymphatic system first is a red herring. JW policy doesn't make this distinction
My question was - If a medical situation arose where a patient was told he needed a transfusion of white blood cells, would it make a difference if the WBCs came from milk or blood?
I got an email stating that my line of questioning was inappropriate for the forum.
-
16
Blood Transference?
by Marvin Shilmer inblood transference?.
watchtower doctrine has advanced the natural and healthy transference of blood constituents via the placenta as a basis for letting witnesses accept blood fractions.
there is a fundamental flaw in that particular proposition that presents an internal contradiction to watchtowers blood doctrine.
-
-
just n from bethel
TD - have I ever told you that you're awesome?
I think this explains why the watchtower hasn't really ever commented on this gaping hole in their blood policy. The comment comes from the pro-wt site: noblood.org which supposedly is run by medical professionals that are JWs.
-
16
Blood Transference?
by Marvin Shilmer inblood transference?.
watchtower doctrine has advanced the natural and healthy transference of blood constituents via the placenta as a basis for letting witnesses accept blood fractions.
there is a fundamental flaw in that particular proposition that presents an internal contradiction to watchtowers blood doctrine.
-
-
just n from bethel
This issue pretty much broke the camel's back for me. I had stopped believing in many teachings prior to this (1914, global flood, etc.), but upon my own similar research of medical journals (ironically done for a part on the service meeting) I learned about this glaring dillema. I also learned about blood transference between identical twins in the womb. It finally hit me that it would be dangerous for me to be part of a religion where I have to tell other people not to do what occurs in nature (Or as some may claim, by God's own design).
Along those lines, Marvin or TD - I would be very interested in your commentary on this thread from noblood.org:
http://www.noblood.org/general-discussions/6286-mothers-milk
Here are some quotes from the pro JW's rebuttals:
Human breast milk does indeed contain certain white blood cells. These can help to pass on disease-fighting capacity to the nursing infant. It seems however that these white blood cells, or leukocytes, come from the mother's lymphatic system rather than directly from her blood stream (the breasts are richly supplied with lymph vessels). Though clearly identifiable as leukocytes, they appear to have somewhat differing morphology and motility from the ones found in the blood stream.
Here is a quote from the article "How Breastmilk Protects Newborns" by Jack Newman MDp.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0mm 0mm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; }Breastfeeding Articles by Dr. Jack Newman - Breastfeeding Online:
"As is true of defensive molecules, immune cells are abundant in human milk. They consist of white blood cells, or leukocytes, that fight infection themselves and activate other defense mechanisms. p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0mm 0mm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } The most impressive amount is found in colostrum. Most of the cells are neutrophils, a type of phagocyte that normally circulates in the bloodstream. Some evidence suggests that neutrophils continue to act as phagocytes in the infant's gut. Yet they are less aggressive than blood neutrophils and virtually disappear from breast milk six weeks after birth. So perhaps they serve some other function, such as protecting the breast from infection. "The next most common milk leukocyte is the macrophage, which is phagocytic like neutrophils and performs a number of other protective functions. Macrophages make up some 40 percent of all the leukocytes in colostrum. They are far more active than milk neutrophils, and recent experiments suggest that they are more motile than are their counterparts in blood. Aside from being phagocytic, the macrophages in breast milk manufacture lysozyme, increasing its amount in the infant's gastrointestinal tract. Lysozyme is an enzyme that destroys bacteria by disrupting their cell walls. " In addition, macrophages in the digestive tract can rally lymphocytes into action against invaders. Lymphocytes constitute the remaining 10 percent of white cells in the milk. About 20 percent of these cells are B lymphocytes, which give rise to antibodies; the rest are T lymphocytes, which kill infected cells directly or send out chemical messages that mobilize still other components of the immune system. Milk lymphocytes seem to behave differently from blood lymphocytes. Those in milk, for example, proliferate in the presence of Escherichia coli, a bacterium that can cause life-threatening illness in babies, but they are far less responsive than blood lymphocytes to agents posing less threat to infants. Milk lymphocytes also manufacture several chemicals-including gamma-interferon, migration inhibition factor and monocyte chemotactic factor-that can strengthen an infant's own immune response." p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } So the leukocytes in mother's milk would appear to be specialized for the particular job they have to do in the baby's immune system. Originating in the lymph vessels, they are evidently separate and distinct from those circulating in the mother's blood vessels.And also:
Hello again,
I will try to explain it a little bit more what I mean. This is only an addition not a new statement. As everybody here in this forum knows, the whole blood exists of four main components:
plasma, erythrocytes, leucocytes and thrombocytes. JW refuse to get one ore more of this main components or the whole blood for a transfusion.
This four main components can be subdivided in subcomponents: erytrocytfractions, leucocytefractions, thrombofractions and plasmafraction. Plasma for example includes water (more than 90%), albumin (4%), glubolin (3%) fibrinogen(1%), etc. Erythrocytes: hemoglobin, h?min, etc.
Thrombocytes ...
leucocytes: neutrophil granulocytes (50 bis 80%) * eosinophil granulocytes (2-4%)
* basophile granulocytes (0,5-1%)
* monocytes (2-8 %)
* lymphocytes (25- 40 %)
It ?s a matter of their conscience if JW refuse to get fractions or if they allow to get them transfused. Some say no, others say yes. The question now is: are all the components of the white cell, like neutrophil granulocytes or basophile granulocytes autonomous parts like the erythrocytes as collectivity, or are they "only"components of the white cell and all together are the leucocyte?
In my opinion like for example the hemoglobin alone is not the red blood cell, but only a part of it, so are the neutrophil granulocytes or the basophil granulocytes not the white cell but belongs to the whole part.
On the other side it is interesting to see that for example the neutrophil granulocytes stay only 6-8 hours in the blood circuit - then they disappear to the surface of the mucous membrane. Could they be there still main components of the blood ? They do separate from the blood blood any more. Interesting things are going on in the body. and do "lead a own life", but not in the If all the parts of the leucocytes are autonomous main blood products, that means they are all main components of the whole blood , the question would be legitimate why a main component of the blood is transfused from a mother to a child. But as an embryo do not get the whole blood from the mother, but fractions (also parts of white cells) to stabilize the immunity, so in the mother?s milk the baby gets important components to continue to build up the immunity of the child.
